Transcript:
Welcome to the Church Communications podcast. We want to help you become a church communications expert. We understand it can be a challenging and ever-changing role because we’ve worked in the church too, which is why we built a community with over 25,000 church leaders that are ready to support and cheer you on.
Your hosts for the show are Katie Allred and Kenny Jahng who want to help equip you to reach more of your congregation and community. This is the place where we’ll talk shop with fellow practitioners and professionals. Are you ready? Let’s get started.
Katie Allred:
Hi, welcome to Church Communications. I’m Katie Allred. I’m really excited today to be joined with Trey Van Camp. Trey is notoriously known as the YouTube pastor, I feel like.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
And yeah, you really built a reputation for yourself on the internet, which is good, right? I mean, I’ve built a-
Trey Van Camp:
I hope.
Katie Allred:
… reputation for myself. You’re like, “I don’t know if it precedes me.” [inaudible 00:00:49]
Trey Van Camp:
You’re the Facebook community person.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. Yeah, sure. So, we’re going to get into that, but first, Trey, we’re in [inaudible 00:00:59] right now for people who don’t know, that’s why we have this cool blue curtain. That’s why we’re even together, not on the internet.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
Because normally we would not be in person. But why don’t you tell us a little bit about what your session was today?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, yeah. So, Dan Darling is good friend of mine. Actually, his church supports my church plant.
Katie Allred:
Okay.
Trey Van Camp:
So, that’s how we know each other.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Well, now he’s pretty high up in the NRB world, so he invited me to talk about YouTube. So, I positioned it as how to YouTube your journey and journal for King Jesus.
Trey Van Camp:
So, it’s this idea, I think King David was the original blogger. Because in Psalm 51, you see his journal, his heart of confession, right? That my bones are breaking within me because of my sin. I finally confess and I feel better.
Trey Van Camp:
Well, that’s more powerful for us because we know 2nd Samuel 12, we understand his sin with Bathsheba being confronted. So, we could see the journey and the journal. And I think that’s what’s cool about YouTube. It’s not just a place to upload your sermon.
Katie Allred:
Ah, the journey and the journal.
Trey Van Camp:
It’s not a place just to upload your sermon or your live stream.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
But it’s a way to incorporate your whole life into it and talk about biblical lessons in the middle of it.
Katie Allred:
Right, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
So-
Katie Allred:
No, I think that’s really cool.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Okay, so tell us a little bit about your church, where you are, what you’re doing.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, so I planted Passion Creek Church five and half years ago.
Katie Allred:
Oh wow.
Trey Van Camp:
We’re Southern Baptist Convention, so North American Mission Board church.
Katie Allred:
Were you at SBC last week?
Trey Van Camp:
I was not.
Katie Allred:
What? I was there.
Trey Van Camp:
I know.
Katie Allred:
How’d I get there and you weren’t?
Trey Van Camp:
You’re SBC?
Katie Allred:
Yeah. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Trey Van Camp:
Let’s go.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Squad.
Katie Allred:
You didn’t know that about me?
Trey Van Camp:
I didn’t know that about you. Yeah, we keep it under wraps, right?
Katie Allred:
Right, right, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
No, I couldn’t go because I had previous commitments with work and stuff.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, long story short, I wish I was able to go. I was happy with the results.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
So, anyways. Yeah, so I’ve been doing that for five and a half years and about four and a half years ago, I learned about Casey Neistat. You know who Casey Neistat is?
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The blogger [inaudible 00:02:56] blogs.
Trey Van Camp:
That’s when I decided… I’d never heard of that before. That’s when I decided appropriate that [crosstalk 00:03:00]
Katie Allred:
It’s really interesting what Casey Neistat was doing at the time, was pretty wild and innovative. Is he still doing that?
Trey Van Camp:
Not really. So, that’s the question.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, he fell off the planet didn’t he?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, he’s living that family life.
Katie Allred:
Oh.
Trey Van Camp:
Because he uploaded every day-
Katie Allred:
Okay, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
… for two and a half years, so he got burnt out.
Katie Allred:
Okay.
Trey Van Camp:
But he made a lot of money because CNN bought him out.
Katie Allred:
Oh, wow. Really?
Trey Van Camp:
So, he’s just living the… Yeah, he’s randomly on podcast episodes that I watch.
Katie Allred:
Okay. Wow. Well, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, he’s like, “I have too much money.”
Katie Allred:
I didn’t know this [inaudible 00:03:31].
Trey Van Camp:
He made 25 million-
Katie Allred:
Wow.
Trey Van Camp:
… from his channel.
Katie Allred:
Okay.
Trey Van Camp:
So, that’s my plan. No, I’m just kidding.
Katie Allred:
Make that for the church. Okay, well I want to know… Okay. So, how did you get started vlogging? Or YouTubing? What’s the proper way? What’s the cool way to say it now? [crosstalk 00:03:49]
Trey Van Camp:
I know. I feel like vlogging is a bit old now. It’s just YouTubing. Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah. So, what was the question? How long?
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah. How did you get started?
Trey Van Camp:
How did I get started? Yeah, so I watched the Casey Neistat vlog and though, “Wow. I thought YouTube was just for cat videos.”
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So I was like, “This could be a great place for storytelling.” And I really recognized what… Because he would show his life, but then he would talk and share his perspectives.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
And I realized he was molding and shaping a whole generation with how they view the world.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, he really was.
Trey Van Camp:
And it was packaged in a way where you’d receive it. And so pastors were saying, “How come my sermons aren’t getting watched?” Well it’s like, I’m a sermon guy. I’m all about them.
Katie Allred:
Well, the way you’re titling your sermons is probably the first problem, right?
Trey Van Camp:
Step one.
Katie Allred:
You’re titles are really terrible, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, but it’s not a story. You’re not really brought in and there’s no trust built there.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, I liked how Casey was doing that, not from a Christian perspective. And I thought, “Is any Christian doing it?” And to be honest, I couldn’t find anybody doing it.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So I was like, “I’ll try.” Because I’ve always… I’m a pastor’s kid.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, I made the website for my dad because nobody else would.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
I made all the videos because nobody else would.
Katie Allred:
So, the original church comm kid, that is Trey Van Camp.
Trey Van Camp:
That is me.
Katie Allred:
Okay.
Trey Van Camp:
And then I became a pastor, so I was like, “Wait, I can flip the camera around and still communicate?”
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, that’s why I decided to morph those two. And my journey has changed a lot.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
I used to just do just vlogging.
Katie Allred:
I think it’s really unique too. I don’t think any pastor can do what you’re doing. I mean, I know that we want to encourage them.
Trey Van Camp:
That’s what’s so hard. So, I just gave the talk-
Katie Allred:
I know.
Trey Van Camp:
… and I’m like, “First of all, I know some of y’all will just never do it because it’s too much work.”
Katie Allred:
It’s so much work. It’s incredible-
Trey Van Camp:
And then the other half of you won’t do it because you don’t get what I’m even saying. You’ve never seen a vlog before.
Katie Allred:
Right. And I don’t think it’s just the steward… I think a third reason is there is a skill and talent.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
And you do have that. And I want to also bless you, and you really do have a really unique skillset.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, thank you.
Katie Allred:
That’s really hard to repeat.
Trey Van Camp:
That’s what’s hard.
Katie Allred:
But at the same time, we want to encourage because there are those same people like you, right?
Trey Van Camp:
True.
Katie Allred:
Who are preaching the gospel-
Trey Van Camp:
They don’t have to be pastors.
Katie Allred:
… or even behind the scenes-
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
… that could be doing this, that have this skill set, right? That could still be doing this and spreading the gospel.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
But they don’t know, or maybe they’re scared. And I think that’s where you fill in the gap and explain and help them grow in this kind of thing.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Which I think you’re doing. So, I know you got this Patreon situation going on.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
I want to know a little bit about that.
Trey Van Camp:
I didn’t know you were watching any of my stuff, so I’m encouraged right now.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to get into that stuff, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Were you researching right before we met?
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw some tea or something. No, no, no, actually this was weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw some tea on there and I was like, “Oh, Trey’s got this thing.” And I was like, “That’s cool.”
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
I’m excited about that.
Trey Van Camp:
So, I’m doing Patreon now. So, I’ve tried to do online courses. So, being a church planter, I-
Katie Allred:
Is it about church planting too? Or is it just about the YouTube? Or is it a little of both?
Trey Van Camp:
It’s a little bit of both, but being a church planter, I need to find other ways to make income-
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
Trey Van Camp:
… to bless my family. So, I was like, “Well, what are things that I’ve learned that could bless other people?” And making videos and stuff like that.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, right now I have valuewithvideo.com and it’s got 33 videos of teaching pastors, “Here’s everything I’ve learned,” like how to make a Facebook ad and YouTube ad, all those things.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
But yeah, so I made this Patreon to where if you do $20 a month, you have access to that course now.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
But then we meet on Zoom twice a month.
Katie Allred:
Oh, that’s really cool.
Trey Van Camp:
And we just talk strategy. We just talk shop. Sometimes it’s what’s the latest camera to use, other times it’s, “Hey, I tried to do this podcast.” Or, “How do you invite guests?” Or, “How do you write a book?” Or all these different things, and so we just talk shop. There’s always at least 20 or so that hop on. And it’s a huge blessing.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, that’s really cool. So, if people-
Trey Van Camp:
But then there’s the $10 a month. So, that’s actually… I’m not trying to pitch my Patreon-
Katie Allred:
No, well I was about to ask how do you find it.
Trey Van Camp:
So, I tried to do levels of tiers. So, I have silent partners that are just $3.33 a month.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
And I don’t do anything for you. 10 bucks a month, I call it my ministry leaders tier. So, let’s talk about ministry. So, I do twice a month Zooms with those people saying, just even put YouTube aside, just sermon series, getting a building, just anything ministry-wise, let’s just talk life.
Trey Van Camp:
And then the $20 a month is the content creator tier.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, then we talk about editing and gear.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
And then the hundred dollars a month tier, which I have a few. I’m like, “You guys are amazing. What do you want from me?” So, we just do a one-on-one consultation call once a month.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
So, some of them it’s spiritual direction, just me being pastoral to them. And others it’s like, “I need you to really walk me through editing this vlog.”
Katie Allred:
Yeah, figure out…
Trey Van Camp:
It’s been a huge blessing to my family. I have 65 patrons right now.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, that’s awesome.
Trey Van Camp:
So, that’s cool.
Katie Allred:
That’s really cool, yeah. Okay so how do people get involved if they want to find that?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, you asked me. I don’t like saying, “Make sure…” But the easy way-
Katie Allred:
But we’re here.
Trey Van Camp:
I know, I got you. Treyvancamp.com and there’s just a big button that says Patreon. That’s the easiest way.
Katie Allred:
Cool. Yeah. Well, okay. So, first off, you do such a good job resourcing the church, so I don’t think this is a pitch or anything.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, I am really trying to help pastors.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s my honest heart, and knowing yours, I don’t think that’s what you’re trying to do.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, I just have seen that a lot here, just buy this, buy that. So, I’m like, “I don’t want to be that guy.”
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, no, I completely understand. And we don’t want to be those kind of people either.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
At the same time though-
Trey Van Camp:
My family’s got to eat. You know what I’m saying?
Katie Allred:
Yeah. And, well, the worker deserves his wages, [inaudible 00:09:17] it’s very [crosstalk 00:09:17]
Trey Van Camp:
Pastors get it, right?
Katie Allred:
Yeah, they do.
Trey Van Camp:
Communicators get it.
Katie Allred:
Well, and like I said, you have this unique skillset and unique view because I think you’re ahead.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
I think you’re 10 years ahead of where a lot of pastors will want to be.
Trey Van Camp:
Do you feel that way often?
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
With stuff like this where it’s like I feel like what I’m saying is going over your head because it’s…
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
You will get it one day, but… Not to be rude, but-
Katie Allred:
Well, and I think a lot of church communicators feel that way.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, even to their pastor, right?
Katie Allred:
Yeah. Well, and I think COVID accelerated where it should… It’s almost to where it should be.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Right? It accelerated it so much. So, the church communications director position right now is in its form of becoming more professionalized.
Trey Van Camp:
Right, true.
Katie Allred:
So, youth ministry. Every church felt like they needed a youth minister to survive.
Trey Van Camp:
Right, right.
Katie Allred:
Right?
Trey Van Camp:
That was the first hire.
Katie Allred:
It was. Because we’re millennials, right? You’re around my age probably. And yeah, I think everybody was like, “We’ve got to get a youth minister. There’s all these kids.” And so they pulled somebody into a full-time position to deal with all these kids.
Katie Allred:
Well, I think that’s what’s happened with social media and all these channels. They’re like, “We got to hire somebody to deal with all of these means of communication.
Trey Van Camp:
Right. It’s a lot of work.
Katie Allred:
Yeah. Because we can’t handle it anymore at this point. And so, actually, maybe you could talk about how do you do that as a church plant? What does that look like for you and for your church.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah. So, our current model, because we’re a small church-
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
So, with my storytelling and my videos that I do, it’s under my name and it’s all housed under just Trey Van Camp.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
But I mean, it certainly blesses the church.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
People come to our church because they found out about my channel.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Like my piano player, who’s incredible. Her husband found out about me through a Brady Shearer shout out.
Katie Allred:
Oh, that’s so funny.
Trey Van Camp:
Three years ago. And now they’re like, “We finally moved in the area. We want to go to your church.” I’m like, “That’s so cool.” And they’re the biggest blessing, I love that couple. So, stuff like that happens a lot, but I’ve really kept it separate in the sense that all the camera gear I have, I bought it.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
That way when I do Patreon, I don’t feel bad for taking it.
Katie Allred:
Right, right.
Trey Van Camp:
But yeah, there’s definitely a big correlation there with the church.
Katie Allred:
Yeah. So, who produces your Sunday morning? Or who produces the graphics and that kind of stuff?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah. Me.
Katie Allred:
You’re doing all of it?
Trey Van Camp:
I’m doing all of it.
Katie Allred:
You’re comms team.
Trey Van Camp:
I am the comms team.
Katie Allred:
So, that’s probably relatable for every single pastor.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Because that’s why I created the group, because I was like, “I know there are pastors across America who are doing everything.”
Trey Van Camp:
So, sometimes my church channel lacks.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
And the graphic and like, “Oh, it’s Memorial Day. Let’s post something about…” Because I’m always focused on my content.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
So, I would love to have somebody else to take over our church stuff and repurpose what I make and put it on the church page.
Trey Van Camp:
So yeah, it’s a difficult… We’re not… Don’t go to our church page. I think we do good with our live streams and we have a team that does that that does great. But I’m trying to get people that do sermon clips and all that kind of stuff. Right now it’s just me.
Katie Allred:
It’s a process, yeah. And too, coming up with sermon clips and stuff, it is helpful to get that transcript and stuff afterwards. Or if you’ve heard your mix, you can get that-
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
… and pass it off to somebody. But I’m sure when you’re doing all that yourself…
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
I can’t imagine.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, it just gets overwhelming. And then I have ministry to do.
Katie Allred:
Yeah. Yeah, and then you have… Yeah, yeah. You’re going to visit people at the hospital.
Trey Van Camp:
So, for church comm leaders, what’s the three pieces of content they need to be making right now for a church page?
Katie Allred:
Oh man, you just turned it back on me.
Trey Van Camp:
Yes.
Katie Allred:
I don’t like that. Yeah, I don’t like that at all.
Katie Allred:
Okay, so what should people be making? Well, one, they should be figuring out how to do online community. That’s my space.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
I know that as [crosstalk 00:13:13]
Trey Van Camp:
I remember your talk at SEC about that. It was so good.
Katie Allred:
And I know that that’s not content. Well, that was a wild idea God gave me back in 2016 about creating communities that are not a part of the church. Which is so funny because it’s an old idea.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
This is not some crazy new idea that I invented, but-
Trey Van Camp:
You’re prioritizing connection over conversion. It leads to conversion, but you’re connecting with them first.
Katie Allred:
Well, didn’t Jesus prioritize connection over conversion?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, you’re right. Because they’re people.
Katie Allred:
I mean, he wanted the people to come… Yeah, let the people come to me even though they’re children, right? It wasn’t like he was expecting those children to be converted and [crosstalk 00:13:51]
Trey Van Camp:
And as pastors, we always got to pray that prayer, we got to close the deal.
Katie Allred:
You got to plan A, B, and C. We got to get that done. And so, yeah. Which is part… I mean, yeah. [inaudible 00:14:01] came to me.
Trey Van Camp:
And praise God for that, but right.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love evangelism. I’m like, I just want to make evangelism not weird again.
Trey Van Camp:
That’s why I like vlogging, because it’s making that personal connection.
Katie Allred:
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s just like people might [inaudible 00:14:17] end up on your YouTube channel.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
And that’s what I want. I want people to maybe end up in my online community.
Trey Van Camp:
Cool.
Katie Allred:
And then we have a relationship. Just like you and me, we met on the internet, right?
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
We’ve met maybe one time in person beforehand.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
However, here we are having a conversation.
Trey Van Camp:
And it’s just boom.
Katie Allred:
It’s fine. You can do the same thing, but with hiking and stuff in your community and other ideas.
Trey Van Camp:
Right. That’s true.
Katie Allred:
It’s not that hard. You can find people in your church who are already passionate about doing these kind of things.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah. Just empower them.
Katie Allred:
And just tell them to… Yeah. Maybe give them the resources and tools, right? Because a lot of them will be like, “Well, I don’t have money to do these kinds of things.” Well, yeah, we can fund it, but let us help you. I don’t know.
Trey Van Camp:
So two more. That’s one thing church comm-
Katie Allred:
That’s a big one. That’s the big one for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
You got two more?
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
You probably have ten more.
Katie Allred:
For content specifically or just church comm in general? For content… Okay, so I do think extending the sermon throughout the week is good.
Trey Van Camp:
Okay.
Katie Allred:
Cutting the sermon up, putting it in different places, like TikTok and reels and stuff like that. I think it’s good, but more than that, create fun, awkward content-
Trey Van Camp:
Nice.
Katie Allred:
… you’re not expecting from a church.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
Because, and that was what I was telling your church. I went and did a consult with a church a couple of months ago. And they were like, “Look through our TikTok and give us some ideas.”
Katie Allred:
And I was like, “You’re TikTok is…” I mean, your TikTok. Your Instagram. I was like, “Your Instagram is so beautiful.” I was like, “It is so beautiful, but it looks like a bunch of perfect people go to church here.”
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
And it tells a very different story than when I’m here. Y’all are very authentic, your people are really nice and welcoming, but what to me this looks like is pretty pictures.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
And you’re missing the awkward.
Trey Van Camp:
And pastors love the pretty pictures of other churches.
Katie Allred:
Right, they do.
Trey Van Camp:
And it’s like, “Hey, let’s do that for my… What other people do.”
Katie Allred:
Right. But here’s the thing, it’s so funny because if you break the perfectness, if you break that aesthetic that you’re going for on Instagram, I guarantee you, it will perform better.
Trey Van Camp:
Breaking the fourth wall.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, and then I also think it’s going to make… Your church is going to be more approachable.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, my last line from my talk today was “personal is more powerful than professional.”
Katie Allred:
Yeah, it is every time.
Trey Van Camp:
And that’s great because the gear is expensive.
Katie Allred:
Yes.
Trey Van Camp:
I mean, it’s like you can do it in five seconds and be good.
Katie Allred:
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
I love that, that’s amazing.
Katie Allred:
Right, yeah. Just be normal. I don’t know. That’s exactly what I try to tell people in this online community space. Just being normal. We just want to create normalcy.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
I think we’ve built up church on a shrine and made it unapproachable in a way. And I want to break whatever that is.
Katie Allred:
And then the third piece-
Trey Van Camp:
Do you think that’s a generational thing? Do you think the generation above us still wants it to be that way?
Katie Allred:
Oh, 100%. Don’t you think so?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, yeah. That’s the hard thing.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, that they want it to be…
Trey Van Camp:
Even those who are attending the church.
Katie Allred:
Which, I think that God is perfect and holy and should be set apart. However, I don’t think the church is perfect.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, I think I miss out. I mean, being a… I’m almost 30, 29. I’m going to hold on that, so I’m in my 20s still.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re a youngster. Okay, fine.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, I’m a youngin. But I miss out on opportunities to minister to older generation sometimes because they see my vlogs and they’re like, “You are so personal and you’re human.”
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Like, “I don’t want to follow a human. I want somebody who is better than me.”
Katie Allred:
Better than me, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
And I hate that. It’s like, “There’s only one person that’s better than you. His name is Jesus. He’s the hero.”
Katie Allred:
Right, right.
Trey Van Camp:
But yeah, I worry about that all the time. I think for one generation, I’m hurting myself.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
I just made a video yesterday about my sabbatical and the thumbnail said, “Pastor Grieves and Leaves.” That’s pretty raw and honest. So, millennials are like, “Oh, this is great. I’m so encouraged.”
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
Even Gen X and above are like, “Man…”
Katie Allred:
The others… Yeah. Aren’t they disheartened?
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
They’re very discouraged in the other way. It’s so funny how… If I tell you… I mean, I’ve had this happen so many times. I’ll tell people I have panic attacks, I have a panic disorder. But when I tell someone older than me that, they go, “Oh, wow.”
Trey Van Camp:
Right, right?
Katie Allred:
Yeah, yeah yeah. Or, yeah. “Have you prayed?” Or like, “Are you…” Anxiety is just something. And I’m like, “No, I have a disorder. It’s fine. I’m fine, I’m not going to have a panic attack on you right now.”
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
But it’s a real thing that people deal with. And it’s fine, but a lot of people are just automatically like…
Trey Van Camp:
And we can glorify it too much sometimes. Sometimes when I make videos I’m like, “I also want to show you when I’m winning.”
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
I want to show you when life is good.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
But then when life is bad.
Katie Allred:
Which is the majority of life.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, when I check Twitter, I’m like…
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Sometimes it is the biggest victim wins. We go on Twitter to say how terrible our life is and we just clap for each other.
Katie Allred:
Right, right, right.
Trey Van Camp:
Sometimes I get that, I’m all for it. But other days I’m like, “You can have a good day. You can be happy.”
Katie Allred:
Right, right, right.
Trey Van Camp:
So there’s a balance. I understand that the older generation says that.
Katie Allred:
It shouldn’t be a highlight reel all the time though.
Trey Van Camp:
Right. Oh, totally.
Katie Allred:
Because when it’s just a highlight reel, we’re creating so much comparison for people. We don’t want that. We don’t want people to be like, “Oh, perfect Christians. I want that perfect Christian life.”
Trey Van Camp:
Right, right.
Katie Allred:
Because it’s not perfect, and Jesus definitely never said it was going to be. And so I don’t want to… It’s like false advertising in a way.
Trey Van Camp:
Right.
Katie Allred:
If you come to Christ, all of a sudden all your problems are going away. So, I think if we can create more truthful content-
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah. And that’s why I think stories. I mean…
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Telling stories, that’s the best way to do it. We talk about… I think it was Aristotle who says the three foundations are truth, goodness, and beauty. And I think the church has cornered the market on truth for a long time.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
So, let’s just make YouTube videos about the truth.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
But I think when we tell stories, we tap into goodness and beauty.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
Tim Keller talks about how our generation doesn’t want to just know that Jesus is right, they want to know that Jesus is better. Right? That it’s actually a genuinely transformative way to live.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, that’s a good word.
Trey Van Camp:
And so, I think it’s important for us to tell the story of just the ups and downs of life and how good Jesus is as our shepherd through the rest of it all.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
That’s goodness, that’s beauty.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
Not just an apologetic slam dunk on people.
Katie Allred:
Right, yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
Which we need. I mean, I don’t know about the slam dunk part, but we need truth.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, right. We do.
Trey Van Camp:
But we need goodness and beauty.
Katie Allred:
Yeah. It’s really… We don’t need Jonathan Edwards’s… What was it?
Trey Van Camp:
Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.
Katie Allred:
Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. That wouldn’t work today the way it did back then.
Trey Van Camp:
Right. Preaching would be a lot easier if it did.
Katie Allred:
Man, yeah. If you’d just preach Hell and fire that’d be great. I mean, I’d be into that. I don’t know. It’s funny, I loved that section in English. I don’t know in high school English if you ever studied that.
Trey Van Camp:
Yes. Everybody was like, “Trey, pastor’s kid, you tell me what this means.”
Katie Allred:
What this means. Oh, every single time?
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, it was so fun. I loved it.
Katie Allred:
I really enjoyed that part of English class.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, same.
Katie Allred:
It was very interesting to me. But at the same time… Because I was like, “Wow, this really changed the nation.” But at the same time, it was just… I don’t know, it’s an interesting part of history, but-
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, well what about you? What’s some content that we should be creating? You tell us.
Trey Van Camp:
Oh man, you’re not supposed to flip it back.
Katie Allred:
You’re welcome.
Trey Van Camp:
No, I just think, and praise God for it, the conversations around livestream… That should be good. But yeah, I mean, my whole thing is creative storytelling. I think the closest thing the church at large gets to it is testimonial videos.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
And so, praise God for those. But we do it in a way where it’s just their whole story is in one video, it’s done. And it’s always super emotional, but I think there’s ways to keep telling the story, to keep coming back, to keep showing the highs and lows of life.
Katie Allred:
Yeah, right.
Trey Van Camp:
It’s a hard ask, but I really do think that there’s power in it.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
So…
Katie Allred:
And there’s so many good stories.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah.
Katie Allred:
Everybody has a story-
Trey Van Camp:
Everybody does.
Katie Allred:
… where God has brought them through and what he’s brought.
Trey Van Camp:
I mean, our Bible would make a lot more sense to us if we understood it as a story.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
There’s creation, fall, redemption, restoration.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
Understanding where we’re at in that story.
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
But we treat it as a cookbook or just these recipes or…
Katie Allred:
Right.
Trey Van Camp:
And so, I think when we understand it’s a story of grace and God’s provision and how we’re a part of that story too.
Katie Allred:
Yeah.
Trey Van Camp:
That’s really powerful.
Katie Allred:
Okay, well I feel like that’s pretty good for today. Okay, so Trey, if people want to find you on the internet…
Trey Van Camp:
Yes.
Katie Allred:
How do they do it?
Trey Van Camp:
Just look up Trey Van Camp on YouTube. It’s T R E Y Van space Camp. Like you’re camping in a van. V A N C A M P.
Katie Allred:
Okay, got it. Van Camp.
Trey Van Camp:
Trey Van Camp.
Katie Allred:
Okay, perfect. Well, thank you so much for hanging out.
Trey Van Camp:
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:
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